Electronics manufactures must from Saturday fit all devices sold in the EU with USB-C charger ports in a bid by the 27-nation bloc to reduce waste and cut costs for consumers, who will no longer have…
My only concern with this law, is that what happens when USBC is no longer the best option. Idk how to express what I’m saying but what if USB-G ends up being 1000x as fast. Does this law allow for chargers to evolve and if so, how? I admit I haven’t looked into this but I’ve been wondering about it.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD, and the commission is required to review the landscape every 5 years to see if a new technology is better than USB-C that should be adopted in the future
And they’re using recommendations from the USB consortium, which is comprised of all the large manufacturers in the world, so it should always be up to date during the review process.
Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD
Controversial opinion: I wish this wasn’t the case. So many different proprietary protocols, most of the time you’ll still need a specific adapter, and in some cases even a proprietary cable to utilize the full speed, and nowadays most devices come without the adapter.
And there’s even PPS in the PD spec allowing to request for a specific voltage rather than something in an existing list.
But I do also have some personal grievances here:
Mi TurboCharge - This may be something based on PD, but still being something separate. I don’t know, but I do know it requires more pins than USB-A has. 5 pins. Somewhere I read this is connected to a CC pin in the USB-C connector. But no, they did not use USB-C, they used USB-A, with an extra pin. Only shortly before the phone died I finally figured out why it wasn’t charging as fast as expected - I wasn’t using their proprietary cable.
My current phone’s interference (?) with Qualcomm QC 2.0 - Somehow when using a cable with non-perfect connection on QC-compatible adapters, when I move the USB-A connector, it starts triggering 12V mode until it finally shows overvoltage error and slows down to 7W. QC 2.0 is how my USB tester identifies it. This is a MediaTek-based device, so I don’t think it would support QC. The original adapter uses PD and some 11V 6A thing with unknown protocol. Perhaps that is where the problem originates, I don’t know what data it sends down. But testing with OTG adapter on the original brick it seems the protocol needs the extra pins of USB-C to work properly.
I’ve had 3 phones that supported some fast charging, so far 2 of them made it into a confusing mess. Had they all used just PD it would have been a better experience.
I agree, but at least requiring USB PD, as it’s written, will at least give you 240 watt USB-C charging if they offer higher than 240 watt charging through a proprietary standard
If you have a cable that supports it, which is not usually obvious. And if you have a charger that supports it, which tends to be easier, but again, not always obvious. And don’t even start on transfer speeds or whether or not it’ll support lower usb standards like keyboards and mice. (I have a fairly high end cable that supports the highest speed data transfers but a keyboard will not work on it)
Micro was the worst connector I’ve used, and I’m happy for its demise, but at least I knew what I was getting when I plugged it in.
Transfer speed isn’t part of this regulation, but yeah, making it clearer on the box the max power output on chargers and cables would be a good continuation of the requirements
3.2. ensure that any additional charging protocol allows for the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred toin point 3.1, irrespective of the charging device used.
USB-C doesn’t have speeds, it’s just a connector type. USB 1, 2, 3-3.2, 4 etc. is the protocol responsible for speed. You can have a USB-C connector with any implementation (except maybe USB 1). It can even do DisplayPort stuff.
So for USB-C to become irrelevant we need to come up with a better connector form factor. Which is unlikely to happen soon. But also, same thing happened with USB-B Micro connector (colloquially called micro USB), it was designated as a standard (but Apple managed to get an exemption) and manufacturers had no issues moving to a better connector, which is USB-C.
Even with this graphic, I still don’t know what they support. Is circle-20 also 20gbps? What is the speed when there’s no number? Do the non-DP ones not support displays at all? And there appears to be no such thing as USB4-DP?
And good luck getting your grandmother to identify any of this over the phone. “Is it marked SS-subway diagram-20, or circle-20-subwaydiagram? Yes it’s etched gray on slightly different gray, go put on your strongest glasses first, grandma.”
Also, who’s at reading distance from a USB port half the time? Sometimes they’re on the front of a device, but they’re just as often hidden behind something or in a hard-to-reach place. Monitors and PCs come to mind.
MagSafe/Qi2 is definitely convenient, but you have to be wary of its downsides. 2 of which are:
wireless induction wastes a good amount of energy being transferred
wireless induction additionally heats up the battery and reduces its lifespan
But the good news is, it’s basically the defacto standard. Since Apple opened up this standard it pretty much killed all the competition. The adoption is expected to increase in the coming years.
I wouldn’t have even known what to google to learn this. Thanks for sharing! I actually love the C form factor I didn’t realize that was kinda what made it C and not what it could do. I appreciate your response.
What I don’t understand is what was wrong with mini-USB.
Too thick? Just why do people want a portable computer to be thinner that their wallet, or their notebook, or their damned pen, or that Snickers bar in their pocket which nobody made thinner. Who the hell told them that “miniaturization being the future of tech” has anything to do with the box inside which that tech is mounted being just a bit thinner? I mean, were it thin enough to put computers into printed magazine pages, maybe (I think I’ve read that someone did this, with a computer kinda as powerful as ZX Spectrum). Why do they specifically need it? Not to appear “modern”, but really?
The question is, because for me personally mini-USB was very convenient. It held well, was easy enough to stick the right way (and not ruin it trying to stick it the wrong way).
Now, I guess USB-C is fine if it can do the same and go both ways. I actually like it, except RPi 4 is the only device I have needing it.
It’s just … how can one try so many connector types for one group of standards?..
Mini-USB sucked, big time. Not so bad as micro, but yea it was bad.
The main advantage of C over all previous versions is that it’s reversible, you can’t plug it in wrong. The shape is also… “flat”?, so it’s easier to fit into the socket, mini had that wavy like thing going on.
My data source is my small kid: he’s broken 3 (and counting…) usb-mini micro connectors by tugging the charging PS4 controllers, and he has to ask me to connect the cable to charge them, he’s unable to do it himself yet. With his tablet, 0 usb-c connectors broken and he can plug it in himself.
If I were to guess, it would be the additional pins. USB-C PD is capable of decent power transfer while also having enough data transfer capability simultaneously. USB-C docks are a good example, seeing that you can hook up a display, charger, other USB devices, ethernet, etc and have it all go through a single cable and (compact, convenient) connector. The reversibility is an added bonus
USB micro (not sure if you’re getting micro confused with mini, but doesn’t really matter) only supported data transfer, not video transfer (like HDMI). Some USB-C ports are data only, but it theoretically supports more than USB micro was ever capable of.
For example you can buy a USB-C to HDMI cable for a few dollars, which could theoretically plug your phone directly into your TV (if your phone supports that). But a USB micro to HDMI cable was called an “MHL adapter” and was expensive and only worked on specific MHL capable phones like this one. It has a separate box that requires its own power cord in order to work, it’s not just a simple cable. USB-C should, in theory, eliminate the need for such a thing.
I do have that adapter, but you immediately realize phone screens suck when you mirror them on a big TV. Unfortunately it didn’t want to use it as a secondary screen - I don’t know if that has changed with modern iPhones/iPads: I should dig that up and try again
Even for a 2020 release, it must be an outlier. Actually never heard of BQ Mobile until now. Apparently, they released their last phone in 2020, and in 2021 completely ceased operations. They were probably trying to use up all the remaining micro USB port modules to cut costs or something.
The plug will be the same, bet money. There are already several sorts of USB-C. And think on this, the USB-A has had the same shape for going on 30-years.
This, USB-C is just the connector shape. USB-A is the standard square plug everyone knows, USB-B has several different ends, some more well known than others. The full sized “printer/hub” one, mini-B and micro-B which more people know. USB-A to A cables aren’t common, more akin to an Ethernet crossover cable, so you’re almost always going to see one of the B connectors.
USB-C is just the newest plug design, the actual cable and communication protocols have changed numerous times over the decades. USB-C might have been introduced alongside USB 3.0 and the massive increase in charging and data speeds with the new standard, but they are not exclusive.
The most obvious example is probably the iPhone 15 and 16, both had a USB-C plug, but the devices only supported USB 2.0 protocols.
I believe USB A-to-A cables actually violate the USB spec and should not in fact ever exist. They definitely should not exist as a straight-through cable (although obviously they still do in reality) without any active electronics in the middle. Male A plugs are solely for connecting to a host device, and the entire purpose of the spectrum of B plugs in their various guises is specifically to make the other end of the cable that goes into the endpoint device different. The point is that you are not supposed to be able to directly connect two hosts together like that.
A straight through dumb A-to-A cable would connect the +5v pin from the host device directly to the +5v pin on the device on the other end of the cable. If you did this between two host devices (i.e. two computers) it is certainly possible that Bad Things would happen if the designers of both devices did not account for this type of stupidity. The only way one of these can be valid according to the spec is to omit the power pins entirely.
That said, I have a particular flashlight that came with exactly one of these naughty cables: A straight through male USB A-to-A cable with no smarts in it whatsoever. The flashlight charges via a USB-A port which is exceptionally bizarre, and I suspect the reason it does so is because it can also act as a power bank and the manufacturer was too cheap to include a type C or micro B or whatever port for input and a separate type A port for output. But now I’m stuck having to use the moronic cable it came with (which is also only like 14" long) without much hope of ever finding an alternative or replacement…
Invalid USB-A male to USB-A male cables are also commonly used on low cost KVM switches.
The one I got from Amazon has two of them - one for each computer, then the other end of each cable connects to the switch. The switch has its own micro-USB power supply but it is optional, so the cables must pass power
Speaking of illegal weird cables: I actually have a Y shaped cable, USB Type-A male to USB Type-A female with an extra red USB Type-A male to inject more power if the host can’t power the device otherwise.
I’ve used it once to attach an external HDD to an Android Phone with an OTG male micro-B to female A adapter. It worked but it was kind of stupid :-D
Male to female A-to-A cables are pretty common (they’re just basic extensions) and totally legal under the spec provided they’re limited to a certain length or contain a powered repeater. It’s just the rare male-to-male (which my keyboard stupidly uses) and even rarer female-to-female that aren’t legal. There’s also the exception of USB-on-the-go cables with a micro-B end and a female A end for devices like smartphones that are capable of being host or connecting to a host, back before they switched to USB-C.
Yeah I remember back before CD-R was widespread, having only 3.5" floppies a Zip 100 drive, trying to look into how to move files from our old family computer to a new one.
I did find some sort of software at Best Buy or Circuit City, someplace like that, which used an A-A cable to directly connect two systems.
Yep. These were a stopgap in the days when normal users could not be expected to have a functional home network of any sort. Those were indeed active devices, and had a lump in the middle of the cable that basically amounted to an integrated USB hub.
There’s only so much power you can put through such a small connector. I could certainly see a high end gaming laptop requiring more than 240W since GPUs keep getting more power hungry. They could increase the voltage a bit, but I doubt they will go much higher.
Fair point but even though it seems USB-C caps out at 5A, it’s quite possible the voltage could be even higher when higher quality materials are used for the existing connector along with controllers that, say, check the resistance before asking for said higher voltage, thus delivering higher wattage. Also keep in mind that the general trend is efficiency, especially with ARM gaining serious momentum.
If you bothered to read the article, you’d notice that the charger was chosen by the manufacturers a decade ago in a summons by the European commission. If Apple had complied to do what they agreed to do back then, this law wouldn’t exist. But they got whiny and litigious. So, instead of an at will standardization program, the EU decided to make it mandatory by law, to shut Apple up, and anyone else who wanted to forcibly refuse to comply. The cool thing about European law is that nothing is written in stone. Not even constitutions are considered sacred, unlike in the Americas, and can be changed at any point or amended as long as proper procedures are followed. There’s nothing, ever, preventing the EU from calling another commission of tech companies to choose a new charger, if a better one ever shows up.
I did read the article but didn’t know anything about EU law. Someone else shared an excerpt of the law and kindly explained how it worked. Thanks for your response though.
You should verify this, but I think there is like a consortium of sorts made up of tech companies that pick a standard that they all must follow. So in the future, it’s possible for them to pick a new standard, and then after a transition period everything would be required to switch (though of course you could still continue using old devices, they just can no longer be sold new).
The new law allows you to have more than one charging connector provided that either the USB-C one is the best one, or the USB-C one is as good as the spec allows. If the new connector’s genuinely better, then it’ll beat a maxed-out USB-C connector, so devices will provide it in addition to a maxed-out USB-C connector.
uh huh and when the company is sued into oblivion proving their tech is better then what? the problem with laws like this (and I generally support it) is that they give bad actors ways to club others to stifle competition.
There is no requirement to prove that a different connector is better. They simply have to provide it and then it can be better by obvious design. Although it’s irrelevant anyway because no company is going to come up with a better adapter than the USB consortium. Practically every manufacturer is already in it.
tell me you’ve never interacted or looked into the legal system without telling me you never interacted with or looked into how the legal system works.
the lawsuits don’t need to be reasonable just make filing the suit and then dragging it out as much as possible is effective enough.
Don’t get me wrong I like the standardization towards USB-C. but ignoring the implications of laws like this and how they can be abused is silly.
Sued for following the law and making sure the required connector is present and functional? Unless I’m missing something, the law doesn’t require the port be exclusive. I mean, if it did, they’d have to stop including wireless charging, and I don’t see that happening.
Yes, its additional cost which acts as a moat by increasing development costs. now you need to design your new connector and make sure its compatible with the existing standard.
If I’m a company who builds widgets and this new startup will have a better design you damn well bet i’m going to sue them to increase costs and decrease the likely hood they’ll succeed.
Starting today, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, speakers, keyboards and many other electronics sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port,"
Fair. I only use cables, but my assumption would be that they would adapt to new standards. Which is effectively what this is doing to standardize it, IMO.
USB-C standardizes only a connector. Thats good since there’s a lot of room to evolve the standard while keeping at least physical compatibility, but also bad because now we’re back to a stiuation where we have things that fit together but maulnot be entirely compatible. I suppose there’s a minimum base and a negotiation process so things should somewhat work plus tend to improve over time.
This is an interesting article, but I think that this standardisation is exactly for port being the same, not for pinning specific implementation of the 600+ pages long standard.
Completely fair to assume that the complete fucking idiots who create these laws have the faintest fucking clue about what they’re doing. Don’t be so sure! This law certainly doesn’t anticipate advancement. And why would it? That would require competent people to have power to legislate, and we already know that’s impossible. Great question!
My only concern with this law, is that what happens when USBC is no longer the best option. Idk how to express what I’m saying but what if USB-G ends up being 1000x as fast. Does this law allow for chargers to evolve and if so, how? I admit I haven’t looked into this but I’ve been wondering about it.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD, and the commission is required to review the landscape every 5 years to see if a new technology is better than USB-C that should be adopted in the future
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2022.315.01.0030.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2022%3A315%3ATOC
Awesome! I knew by commenting someone educated would come along. Thank you very much.
It’s like when I make it rain or snow by washing my vehicle! I’m giving you part of the credit for it being future-focused…
⛈️
And they’re using recommendations from the USB consortium, which is comprised of all the large manufacturers in the world, so it should always be up to date during the review process.
Controversial opinion: I wish this wasn’t the case. So many different proprietary protocols, most of the time you’ll still need a specific adapter, and in some cases even a proprietary cable to utilize the full speed, and nowadays most devices come without the adapter.
And there’s even PPS in the PD spec allowing to request for a specific voltage rather than something in an existing list.
But I do also have some personal grievances here:
Mi TurboCharge - This may be something based on PD, but still being something separate. I don’t know, but I do know it requires more pins than USB-A has. 5 pins. Somewhere I read this is connected to a CC pin in the USB-C connector. But no, they did not use USB-C, they used USB-A, with an extra pin. Only shortly before the phone died I finally figured out why it wasn’t charging as fast as expected - I wasn’t using their proprietary cable.
My current phone’s interference (?) with Qualcomm QC 2.0 - Somehow when using a cable with non-perfect connection on QC-compatible adapters, when I move the USB-A connector, it starts triggering 12V mode until it finally shows overvoltage error and slows down to 7W. QC 2.0 is how my USB tester identifies it. This is a MediaTek-based device, so I don’t think it would support QC. The original adapter uses PD and some 11V 6A thing with unknown protocol. Perhaps that is where the problem originates, I don’t know what data it sends down. But testing with OTG adapter on the original brick it seems the protocol needs the extra pins of USB-C to work properly.
I’ve had 3 phones that supported some fast charging, so far 2 of them made it into a confusing mess. Had they all used just PD it would have been a better experience.
I agree, but at least requiring USB PD, as it’s written, will at least give you 240 watt USB-C charging if they offer higher than 240 watt charging through a proprietary standard
If you have a cable that supports it, which is not usually obvious. And if you have a charger that supports it, which tends to be easier, but again, not always obvious. And don’t even start on transfer speeds or whether or not it’ll support lower usb standards like keyboards and mice. (I have a fairly high end cable that supports the highest speed data transfers but a keyboard will not work on it)
Micro was the worst connector I’ve used, and I’m happy for its demise, but at least I knew what I was getting when I plugged it in.
Transfer speed isn’t part of this regulation, but yeah, making it clearer on the box the max power output on chargers and cables would be a good continuation of the requirements
Mostly. There was some nonsense about fast charging if the data lines were shorted together that made things weird from time to time.
From Annex Ia of directive:
3.2. ensure that any additional charging protocol allows for the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery referred to in point 3.1, irrespective of the charging device used.USB-C doesn’t have speeds, it’s just a connector type. USB 1, 2, 3-3.2, 4 etc. is the protocol responsible for speed. You can have a USB-C connector with any implementation (except maybe USB 1). It can even do DisplayPort stuff.
So for USB-C to become irrelevant we need to come up with a better connector form factor. Which is unlikely to happen soon. But also, same thing happened with USB-B Micro connector (colloquially called micro USB), it was designated as a standard (but Apple managed to get an exemption) and manufacturers had no issues moving to a better connector, which is USB-C.
On the downside, you can’t tell what the port supports by just looking at it.
Even with this graphic, I still don’t know what they support. Is circle-20 also 20gbps? What is the speed when there’s no number? Do the non-DP ones not support displays at all? And there appears to be no such thing as USB4-DP?
And good luck getting your grandmother to identify any of this over the phone. “Is it marked SS-subway diagram-20, or circle-20-subwaydiagram? Yes it’s etched gray on slightly different gray, go put on your strongest glasses first, grandma.”
Also, who’s at reading distance from a USB port half the time? Sometimes they’re on the front of a device, but they’re just as often hidden behind something or in a hard-to-reach place. Monitors and PCs come to mind.
It’s not like they’re going to change when you’re not looking.
USB4 supports DP and TB3.
My phone doesn’t have any kind of marking anywhere on it so I’m guessing it’s USB DP
Googling for it, my phone (pixel 9 pro fold) has USB 3.2, so it shouldn’t be able to drive a DP display
Was wondering about thunderbolt. Found this, which I interpret as
usb 4 40 = thunderbolt 4
Wow what a marketing
scumtrick to show all compatible older generations as separate productsI liked the magnetic apple connectors.
I hate Apple though.
You can have both, like MacBooks do
The original MagSafe is great. I still have it on my laptop.
Very much in favor of the mag induction charging! That should be a standard for wall plugs as well
MagSafe/Qi2 is definitely convenient, but you have to be wary of its downsides. 2 of which are:
But the good news is, it’s basically the defacto standard. Since Apple opened up this standard it pretty much killed all the competition. The adoption is expected to increase in the coming years.
I wouldn’t have even known what to google to learn this. Thanks for sharing! I actually love the C form factor I didn’t realize that was kinda what made it C and not what it could do. I appreciate your response.
Wikipedia is a good resource
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB
What I don’t understand is what was wrong with mini-USB.
Too thick? Just why do people want a portable computer to be thinner that their wallet, or their notebook, or their damned pen, or that Snickers bar in their pocket which nobody made thinner. Who the hell told them that “miniaturization being the future of tech” has anything to do with the box inside which that tech is mounted being just a bit thinner? I mean, were it thin enough to put computers into printed magazine pages, maybe (I think I’ve read that someone did this, with a computer kinda as powerful as ZX Spectrum). Why do they specifically need it? Not to appear “modern”, but really?
The question is, because for me personally mini-USB was very convenient. It held well, was easy enough to stick the right way (and not ruin it trying to stick it the wrong way).
Now, I guess USB-C is fine if it can do the same and go both ways. I actually like it, except RPi 4 is the only device I have needing it.
It’s just … how can one try so many connector types for one group of standards?..
Mini-USB sucked, big time. Not so bad as micro, but yea it was bad.
The main advantage of C over all previous versions is that it’s reversible, you can’t plug it in wrong. The shape is also… “flat”?, so it’s easier to fit into the socket, mini had that wavy like thing going on.
My data source is my small kid: he’s broken 3 (and counting…) usb-
minimicro connectors by tugging the charging PS4 controllers, and he has to ask me to connect the cable to charge them, he’s unable to do it himself yet. With his tablet, 0 usb-c connectors broken and he can plug it in himself.I think you guys are taking about micro USB. PS4 controllers have micro, PS3 controllers had mini USB.
They were both equally terrible the only improvement micro had over mini was it was slightly smaller.
I stand corrected, thanks. The mini was bad, the micro in the PS4 controllers is god awful.
That is correct.
Sigh. OK. About breaking stuff - my mom managed to break an RPi charger of all things.
If I were to guess, it would be the additional pins. USB-C PD is capable of decent power transfer while also having enough data transfer capability simultaneously. USB-C docks are a good example, seeing that you can hook up a display, charger, other USB devices, ethernet, etc and have it all go through a single cable and (compact, convenient) connector. The reversibility is an added bonus
USB micro (not sure if you’re getting micro confused with mini, but doesn’t really matter) only supported data transfer, not video transfer (like HDMI). Some USB-C ports are data only, but it theoretically supports more than USB micro was ever capable of.
For example you can buy a USB-C to HDMI cable for a few dollars, which could theoretically plug your phone directly into your TV (if your phone supports that). But a USB micro to HDMI cable was called an “MHL adapter” and was expensive and only worked on specific MHL capable phones like this one. It has a separate box that requires its own power cord in order to work, it’s not just a simple cable. USB-C should, in theory, eliminate the need for such a thing.
I do have that adapter, but you immediately realize phone screens suck when you mirror them on a big TV. Unfortunately it didn’t want to use it as a secondary screen - I don’t know if that has changed with modern iPhones/iPads: I should dig that up and try again
At the risk of sounding like Blizzard, don’t you have a phone? Even my previous phone, Galaxy S8 had USB-C. Or do you have an old iPhone?
Pretty much all electronics that came out in the past 4 years use USB-C. Just an example, here’s a non-exhaustive list of things that I charge with C:
All of these are, on average, at least 4 years old. So I’m pretty sure the average consumer has already switched to primarily USB-C
When I think about it, my phone is like 2 years old. Micro-USB.
What phone is that? Genuinely curious. Was it actually manufactured in 2022 with micro USB?
2020, my bad. Checked. In any case it’s BQ-5046L, sort of what you buy when you don’t like the whole idea of Android, but need some stuff for work.
Even for a 2020 release, it must be an outlier. Actually never heard of BQ Mobile until now. Apparently, they released their last phone in 2020, and in 2021 completely ceased operations. They were probably trying to use up all the remaining micro USB port modules to cut costs or something.
LOL. Wrong BQ. The one you’ve read about is dead, yes. The one I have a phone from is a Russian noname.
Funny I didn’t hear about it. I think they tried releasing something with Ubuntu Phone a few years before, so not a completely worthless company.
Kinda sad even, pretty normal vanilla Android.
The plug will be the same, bet money. There are already several sorts of USB-C. And think on this, the USB-A has had the same shape for going on 30-years.
This, USB-C is just the connector shape. USB-A is the standard square plug everyone knows, USB-B has several different ends, some more well known than others. The full sized “printer/hub” one, mini-B and micro-B which more people know. USB-A to A cables aren’t common, more akin to an Ethernet crossover cable, so you’re almost always going to see one of the B connectors.
USB-C is just the newest plug design, the actual cable and communication protocols have changed numerous times over the decades. USB-C might have been introduced alongside USB 3.0 and the massive increase in charging and data speeds with the new standard, but they are not exclusive.
The most obvious example is probably the iPhone 15 and 16, both had a USB-C plug, but the devices only supported USB 2.0 protocols.
I believe USB A-to-A cables actually violate the USB spec and should not in fact ever exist. They definitely should not exist as a straight-through cable (although obviously they still do in reality) without any active electronics in the middle. Male A plugs are solely for connecting to a host device, and the entire purpose of the spectrum of B plugs in their various guises is specifically to make the other end of the cable that goes into the endpoint device different. The point is that you are not supposed to be able to directly connect two hosts together like that.
A straight through dumb A-to-A cable would connect the +5v pin from the host device directly to the +5v pin on the device on the other end of the cable. If you did this between two host devices (i.e. two computers) it is certainly possible that Bad Things would happen if the designers of both devices did not account for this type of stupidity. The only way one of these can be valid according to the spec is to omit the power pins entirely.
That said, I have a particular flashlight that came with exactly one of these naughty cables: A straight through male USB A-to-A cable with no smarts in it whatsoever. The flashlight charges via a USB-A port which is exceptionally bizarre, and I suspect the reason it does so is because it can also act as a power bank and the manufacturer was too cheap to include a type C or micro B or whatever port for input and a separate type A port for output. But now I’m stuck having to use the moronic cable it came with (which is also only like 14" long) without much hope of ever finding an alternative or replacement…
Invalid USB-A male to USB-A male cables are also commonly used on low cost KVM switches.
The one I got from Amazon has two of them - one for each computer, then the other end of each cable connects to the switch. The switch has its own micro-USB power supply but it is optional, so the cables must pass power
Extra crispy. I wonder if a replacement cable for one of those will work with my flashlight. It probably will.
Speaking of illegal weird cables: I actually have a Y shaped cable, USB Type-A male to USB Type-A female with an extra red USB Type-A male to inject more power if the host can’t power the device otherwise.
I’ve used it once to attach an external HDD to an Android Phone with an OTG male micro-B to female A adapter. It worked but it was kind of stupid :-D
Those used to be common for stuff like external drives (HDD, DVD…)that needed more power than old USB ports could provide, so they used two
Male to female A-to-A cables are pretty common (they’re just basic extensions) and totally legal under the spec provided they’re limited to a certain length or contain a powered repeater. It’s just the rare male-to-male (which my keyboard stupidly uses) and even rarer female-to-female that aren’t legal. There’s also the exception of USB-on-the-go cables with a micro-B end and a female A end for devices like smartphones that are capable of being host or connecting to a host, back before they switched to USB-C.
Yeah I remember back before CD-R was widespread, having only 3.5" floppies a Zip 100 drive, trying to look into how to move files from our old family computer to a new one.
I did find some sort of software at Best Buy or Circuit City, someplace like that, which used an A-A cable to directly connect two systems.
Yep. These were a stopgap in the days when normal users could not be expected to have a functional home network of any sort. Those were indeed active devices, and had a lump in the middle of the cable that basically amounted to an integrated USB hub.
Why not a serial null modem cable and zmodem?
micro-B SuperSpeed is always a good one to surprise people with.
I have a portable hard drive that uses this. I haven’t bought a new cable yet, limiting me to USB 2 speeds. Bleh.
Using those now! Have 3 drives in a Storage Space, another for backup. (And offsite backups!)
I had not thought of this good point.
There’s only so much power you can put through such a small connector. I could certainly see a high end gaming laptop requiring more than 240W since GPUs keep getting more power hungry. They could increase the voltage a bit, but I doubt they will go much higher.
There’s already docking stations for laptops that use two USB C connectors for exactly this reason.
That’s so janky lol
Fair point but even though it seems USB-C caps out at 5A, it’s quite possible the voltage could be even higher when higher quality materials are used for the existing connector along with controllers that, say, check the resistance before asking for said higher voltage, thus delivering higher wattage. Also keep in mind that the general trend is efficiency, especially with ARM gaining serious momentum.
If you bothered to read the article, you’d notice that the charger was chosen by the manufacturers a decade ago in a summons by the European commission. If Apple had complied to do what they agreed to do back then, this law wouldn’t exist. But they got whiny and litigious. So, instead of an at will standardization program, the EU decided to make it mandatory by law, to shut Apple up, and anyone else who wanted to forcibly refuse to comply. The cool thing about European law is that nothing is written in stone. Not even constitutions are considered sacred, unlike in the Americas, and can be changed at any point or amended as long as proper procedures are followed. There’s nothing, ever, preventing the EU from calling another commission of tech companies to choose a new charger, if a better one ever shows up.
I did read the article but didn’t know anything about EU law. Someone else shared an excerpt of the law and kindly explained how it worked. Thanks for your response though.
You should verify this, but I think there is like a consortium of sorts made up of tech companies that pick a standard that they all must follow. So in the future, it’s possible for them to pick a new standard, and then after a transition period everything would be required to switch (though of course you could still continue using old devices, they just can no longer be sold new).
What happens if the better technology is invented by a company not part of that chosen tech club? They get to block it’s adoption?
If it’s really that much better, it’ll be used for other things and catch on, then they’ll be a part of the group.
How can it be used for other things, if this law makes that illegal?
The new law allows you to have more than one charging connector provided that either the USB-C one is the best one, or the USB-C one is as good as the spec allows. If the new connector’s genuinely better, then it’ll beat a maxed-out USB-C connector, so devices will provide it in addition to a maxed-out USB-C connector.
uh huh and when the company is sued into oblivion proving their tech is better then what? the problem with laws like this (and I generally support it) is that they give bad actors ways to club others to stifle competition.
What would they be sued with?
There is no requirement to prove that a different connector is better. They simply have to provide it and then it can be better by obvious design. Although it’s irrelevant anyway because no company is going to come up with a better adapter than the USB consortium. Practically every manufacturer is already in it.
tell me you’ve never interacted or looked into the legal system without telling me you never interacted with or looked into how the legal system works.
the lawsuits don’t need to be reasonable just make filing the suit and then dragging it out as much as possible is effective enough.
Don’t get me wrong I like the standardization towards USB-C. but ignoring the implications of laws like this and how they can be abused is silly.
Sued for following the law and making sure the required connector is present and functional? Unless I’m missing something, the law doesn’t require the port be exclusive. I mean, if it did, they’d have to stop including wireless charging, and I don’t see that happening.
Yes, its additional cost which acts as a moat by increasing development costs. now you need to design your new connector and make sure its compatible with the existing standard.
If I’m a company who builds widgets and this new startup will have a better design you damn well bet i’m going to sue them to increase costs and decrease the likely hood they’ll succeed.
It doesn’t. It only applies to “smartphones, tablets and cameras”, according to the article.
Source: the article
Well now I don’t know what to believe. Anyone have a link to the legislation?
https://lemmy.world/comment/14191329
[…] have to be equipped with […]
That does not mean only equipped with
@catloaf
Walkies #hamradio plz
@iii
Law does not forbid having multiple charging ports.
Fair. I only use cables, but my assumption would be that they would adapt to new standards. Which is effectively what this is doing to standardize it, IMO.
USB-C standardizes only a connector. Thats good since there’s a lot of room to evolve the standard while keeping at least physical compatibility, but also bad because now we’re back to a stiuation where we have things that fit together but maulnot be entirely compatible. I suppose there’s a minimum base and a negotiation process so things should somewhat work plus tend to improve over time.
How fast is the wireless charging these days? I’d be surprised if it’s anywhere near the higher USB PD 3.1 modes.
I’m not sure. I know I could get a high speed one but tossing my phone on at night and currently it lasts all day most days. Same with my watch.
USB-C isn’t the best option at all because USB c isn’t USB c. It only standardises the port and connector but there are many different connectors.
https://hackaday.com/2022/12/06/usb-c-introduction-for-hackers/
This is an interesting article, but I think that this standardisation is exactly for port being the same, not for pinning specific implementation of the 600+ pages long standard.
Thanks for the article, cool read!
It’s crazy, isn’t it? But it’s not a single article… I think there are ten more.
https://hackaday.com/series_of_posts/all-about-usb-c/
Completely fair to assume that the complete fucking idiots who create these laws have the faintest fucking clue about what they’re doing. Don’t be so sure! This law certainly doesn’t anticipate advancement. And why would it? That would require competent people to have power to legislate, and we already know that’s impossible. Great question!
If you don’t know the answer it is of course perfectly acceptable to just not provide one.
I don’t think that will occur, because what’s the point of developing USB-G if you’re not allowed to use it in a product?
Why wouldn’t they be allowed to use it?
Computers have room for multiple ports and is where a new standard would crop up anyway even without the law, just like where USB-C started out.