And that’s without paying royalties to content creators as they should be required to do
also before court cases for defamation. Two cases in Germany hold Google executives responsible for false claims (by the Google AI) of sexual crime claims against an innocent man.
Good. If you want to make AI a form of communication then that’s the voice of your company. You’re endorsing whatever it says.
yeah. It should be the same with Facebook. Here in Australia, it seems like nothing is against the community standards anymore (not spam, porn or even violent threats)
Trash app, it’s why everyone should just stop using it. I ceased doing so, 6 years ago and it’s been bliss without it.
or counting the $1.5 trillion in debt the big AI players are hiding in subsidiaries
yeah the circle-jerk nvidia has created with coreweave and so many others just to wreck the gpu and memory markets, all so these hideously expensive AI racks can SIT IN THEIR FUCKING PACKAGING ON A LOADING DOCK because they don’t have power or cooling built is mindboggling
ITS THE FUTURE YOU JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND!!!
the future of aging like fine piss lol
“The court finds Anthropic guilty and orders them to relinquish the whole of their company to the Group Representing All Artists”.
Artists : “Wait -”.
Dario Amodei : “Fuck yes! Good luck paying back those 80 billions, losers!”
An entire industry built around burning cash, water, and electricity to generate questionable answers based on glorified autocorrect. It’s astounding.
Throw another few trillion and a couple dozen rain forests at it. Completely rational behavior.
glorified autocorrect and plagiarism/nonatribition.
yep. roided up eliza’s
Have you actually used it recently? It’s become incredibly good. Calling it a glorified autocorrect is like calling ASML’s lithography machines a glorified polaroid camera.
Now now this is the frediverse. Your only allowed to ignore facts and hate on ai around here.
There’s plenty of good reasons to hate AI but in case you missed the notice on the door your not allowed to have nuance. It’s all or nothing.
lol… it’s hardly limited to the fediverse bud, people are learning why the economy is fucked: AI
why can’t they buy a console? AI.
OR A GPU.
OR AN SSD.
OR RAM.
OR A FUCKING SPINNING DISK HDD.
why does the food in the adverts look like nightmare fuel? AI.
why does the president think he’s popular? AI.
Tim Sweeney castigates Kenny - why? AI.
Musk can’t synthesize a personality so he snorts ketamine and AI.
where’s the upside, ASSHOLES? Your garbage is fucking up the entire planet, great fuckin work FANBOYS, shove that up your ass for NUANCE
In 20 years - if there’s still a civilization - they’re all gonna look back and wonder how so many were so fuckin dumb.
In 20 years we ALWAYS look back and wonder how so many were so fucking dumb. Thats literally history. Theres never a point where there isn’t some major fucking bunch of absolute idiots trying to ruin everything.
Ai is just this decades attempt at ruining everything.
ok, so it’s like asbestos and nuclear waste runoff, that’s not enough reason to hate AI for you?
instead of stopping the stupidity you’re like: find the nuance.
sexhaver87@sh.itjust.works - lol doubt sheetzoos@lemmy.world -
listen kids, if you’re not brave enough to let chatgpt give you a riposte don’t fucking participate ya little shits
That’s entirely enough reason to hate it.
But it’s also objectively fucking stupid to act as if this is some new historic event in human history and not just yet another dumb fuck move in a long line of dumb fuck moves.
Plenty of good reasons to be pissed off. You don’t have to lie and bullshit to make up more is what I’m getting at.
bUt It CoUlD cUrE cAnCeR
Not with an LLM you won’t.
alphafold actually COULD have and still got dissolved https://www.aimodeling.com/en/news/slug/deepmind-dissolves-alphafold-team-anthropic-pivot
obligatory…
You act as though those billions of dollars spent towards other things (like cancer research) would somehow be better.
?
Fucking yes it would be better to put hundreds of billions of dollars every year into curing cancer/HIV/ Type 1 diabetes/alzheimers, literally any disease. Curing a major illness like those would actively help hundreds of thousands or millions of people around the world every year.
What does AI help? My fucking manager in sending cryptic emails that raise more questions than answers?
Dump a few hundred billion into disease research, or fusion power, or just into housing for all of us.
AI helped me with my voting ballot. I asked Kagi’s AI to research the ambiguous candidates and propositions. I had it put them into a political alignment chart - left/centrist/rightwing. Addendums for candidates included things like whether they had criminal convictions or corruption, stance on vaccinations, how they feel about “tough on crime”, the homeless, ect.
For propositions, the political alignments had a fourth entry added, where the yes/no included the wealth level of backers for a position.
This is very useful, completing in a hour what would have taken a week of research. Very useful for digging into the mechanical details of a proposition, like whether it prevented the replacement or supplementing of a measure.
That’s a lot of words just to say you’re an idiot that would rather offload important critical thinking skills to a piece of software that a rational person wouldn’t trust to provide a cookie recipe.
Better to be an idiot, than to be an jackass. I wouldn’t trust you to be a good person.
Also, the cornbread recipe the AI gave me an hour ago is pretty damn good. Perfectly adjusted to my ingredient list, tools, and pan size, and specifics like whether I want the food to be moist or dry.
Rather be a jackass with a brain than a drooling moron that can’t figure out a cornbread recipe without consulting fancy autocorrect.
How do you know that anything it displayed was accurate for those candidates? Every single time I’ve asked it to include source links, those source links don’t actually support the AI’s statement.
My experience too. The source never backs up what the AI claims. It always just makes shit up.
One of the candidates was appointed to their office by a Republican governor, and elevated more recently by a Democratic one. The AI referred to official government records.
Well, that’s one candidate. And a reference to an official gov doc doesn’t meant the info was extracted or summarized accurately.
How about the others?
…yes?
Remember to never miss the /s
Marking your sarcasm is the coward’s way out
With a .ml account you need to. I’ve heard way more absurd statements said with a straight face from .ml users
It’s cowardly to be understood?
Okay, boss. 👍
But have you considered that it’s like REALLY good at programming? /s
What’s stupid is, you could even just keep just the programming part, and it would become much more efficient and not ramble on with explanations etc.
If an LLM was something you could train on your GitHub repo or an internal knowledge base, and ask it natural language questions about that, AND it didn’t need an 800 acre datacenter to do it, I wouldn’t have so many hang-ups about it. Or maybe even train a model in a programming language and have a model that’s tailor made for writing C, or LISP, or Brainfuck or something.
But that’s not what they are. They only function if you hoover up everything the light touches and feed it to the machine, to the point where rare, irreplaceable literature is being shredded apart for training data. And god help you if you try to take your ball and go play somewhere else as the AI boosters profess you must do, they will follow you there and scrape you anyway
You are describing local models and they’re getting pretty damn good, especially at coding.
I mean, local models with RAG exist.
The loss, up from $13 billion a year earlier, was driven by $72 billion in accounting charges tied to changes in the value of financial instruments Anthropic issued to raise money
This right here is how all of this will come crashing down. Anthropic and OpenAI, along with several associated companies, are using accounting tricks to hide their debts and obligations. These two are trying to maintain hype for investors so they can cash in on an IPO with total disregard for long-term fiscal sustainability. At some point the bill will come due, and you can bet the C-Suite will have already made out like bandits.
Don’t forget, though, that there’s another cashflow that they’re banking on: total surveillance.
AI can’t do a lot of things, but the thing it’s most suited for is creating a society run like a prison to try and keep the discontented masses in check.
Not enough people realize this. They think the component shortage is a side effect, but it’s to push you towards cloud services on underpowered devices that rely on it.
Imagine the censorship when every service is monitored and controlled by them. Imagine the market capture when they can see everyone’s financials and trade secrets. When they can cut off journalists and activists with one click.
Haven’t heard anything new lately, but there is a push to eliminate physical currency for, what I presume, is a similar reason -> make everything trackable.
People have been trying to eliminate physical currency for decades in not longer. That shit predates computers.
This is quite obvious, it hasn’t happened at a global scale yet because people have to agree on which currency it would be
I think this will backfire too. I think they way underestimate the amount of people already using “underpowered devices” that will just continue to do so without the new cloud services shit.
Basically everyone I know us using a 5-10+ year old laptop, for example. And they just use it fine, sure it’s pokey, and it’s not everyone, but it’s a lot.
The Italian government has just passed an emergency decree that authorizes AI-powered face recognition in public spaces without a judge’s authorization.
I’m not even sure it’s great at that. Is this not a function of any industry struggling to find a usecase eventually ending up with the largest US employer and cash cow: the DoD?
LLMs (‘AI’), not so great, but it can get (probabilistic, but fascists don’t care) descriptions of video feeds into easily searched text. Gobs of GPUs in datacenters paired with surveillance devices all over the place however presents a greater threat, where there’s an (evil) will, a way will be forthcoming. Nice of Ukraine to point out how fragile they are. There’s a deathstar analogy there somewhere.
Yeah, the type of people pushing this don’t even care about the inaccuracy either. If it “catches a black man” with facial recognition, even if it’s the wrong person it won’t matter “they are all criminal thugs anyway.” See also the ICE bull shit and basically deporting anyone even remotely Mexican looking, citizen or not.
Ai is a panopticon
This is my take as well.
Modern companies are only profitable in late stage capitalism if they fall into one of they two categories: scams or gambling.
This right here is how all of this will come crashing down
No, this is pretty normal, and more importantly, doesn’t actually cost the company cash. They gave lenders bonds that can be converted to stock, so this loss on their books is pure paper loss, the same way wealth in owning stock in this money losing company is pure paper wealth.
These numbers are just illustration for simplicity, but imagine a company borrowing $20 billion and telling the lender that you’ll either pay back the $20 billion plus interest, or they can opt to convert it into stock worth 10% of the company. When the company is worth $100 billion, the bondholders won’t convert to stock. But if the value of the company shoots up on paper to where that same stock would be worth $100 billion, the lenders would rather take the stock than the cash repayment. And because it’s worth $80 billion more, the company will have to record that on the books as replacing $20 billion in bonds for $100 billion in stock, and an $80 billion loss compared to their last statement.
But look at the underlying financial cash flow. When that happens, the company actually takes $20 billion in debt off their books. They don’t have to repay that loan anymore. So it improves their cash flow position at exactly the same time that they’re booking a loss.
The whole thing will come crashing down for totally different reasons, relating to operational cash flow, not the actual accounting shenanigans where one kind of paper number gets converted to another kind of paper number.
While you explained this correctly (as far as I understand it), there is part of this everyone keeps making an assumption on the outcome, the “or they can opt to convert it into stock” part. I’m really curious what the interest rate they gave the early investors to entice them when the company was much further from a sure thing. If the interest rate was decent, that final number is going to start becoming awfully enticing to just collect on instead of getting stock that might collapse.
That’s the tradeoff, of course. If a company liquidates, it pays its debts first, then its preferred stockholders, then its common stockholders. But each step down the line gives a greater upside in exchange for less certainty in getting paid at all. Bondholders get paid at higher priority, but have the exact amount they get paid defined by a specific mathematical formula. So they won’t get any additional benefit from the company becoming super valuable. Or they can get in the back of the line to see what unlimited upside they have from the company’s value going up a lot.
Also, Anthropic’s bonds aren’t exactly low interest. They’re right there at the edge between junk bond and investment grade.
It’s not entirely transparent though. It’s a paper loss in terms of cash but they did have to give the stock. At their crazy valuations, even 1% is a big deal.
I dunno, isn’t this the same scheme that the ride share companies and food delivery services?
With the difference that all those services mostly outsource their asset costs to their drivers or have very little investment there. Unlike anthropic who have billions in costs related to all the compute they need to service their customers (obligations to other companies, datacenters and, not to forget, ever rising interest on all their debt).
Definitely, the cost of doing business for these AI companies is orders of magnitude higher than Uber or Lyft
You mean the ones who had to massively pivot their entire business model, because they were relying on self-driving cars being practical in 2019?
Excellent use of the meme template.
All those loans are getting hot. They’re starting to toss them around and trying to hide them.
I have strong doubts they can ever make this particular approach to AI work at all, let alone in time to cover their bets.
This path looks like a dead end. But, I don’t know jack about shit.
The issue is they are too expensive, it’s not really a limitation of the technology, well it might be, but that’s not the issue here. They are paying Nvidia Billions for their entire 2026/27 GPU runs and they can’t get the customers to cover that. It’s like $200 pm for their max plan. It’s almost cheeper to hire a human in India.
There’s a reason so many AI projects have turned out to be Actually Indians.
My monthly salary as a software developer is 80 USD
🐤
Inference is cheap and getting cheaper. Not sure about training.
I hope it pops
Why haven’t they just asked Claude how to make money with their business model? /s
They have.
-
Wait for excited CEOs to fire all their staff.
-
Crank up the prices.
2 only works if regulatory capture in place to prevent cheaper competition from open models.
That’s why they keep trying to play the “AI is so dangerous” narrative and why you keep hearing about “rogue AI agents” which in reality someone had to instruct to break the law, and they probably used some of their no-guardrails internal-use models (so Claude Mythos rather than Fable).
Claude Mythos and Fable are the exact same model, the branding only reflects which one has more restrictive classifiers in front of it during deployment. But the weights are identical.
-
That’s a lot of money that could have been spent on healthcare, food security, housing, transit, climate change problems…
That’s not how that works… the money “lost” isn’t going down the drain. It is… going somewhere, doing something useful. That’s why it is a loss to the company.
If it’s going to make LLMs it’s not as useful as the other things I listed. Paying a bunch of software engineers $300k each to work on LLM nonsense instead of something useful is a shame. Sure, the money isn’t set on fire, but the opportunity cost is large.
I mean… A lot of the money is being spent on compute, which is just consuming electricity, which is many times made from coal or gas. So a lot literally is on fire.
Your confusing fact with opinion.
Factually yes it’s useful to the company.
Your opinion is that the usefulness doesn’t justify it and this isn’t useful.
The real question is, is it useful enough. Which is likely no.
That’s at least 3 "your"s in this thread when it should be “you’re”. If you’re wondering why you’re getting down voted…
I’m not wondering nor do I see the point of downvotes? I will never understand the weird fixation with down votes.
Also I don’t even see these downvotes your talking about in the first place. My post appears to have no downvotes and one upvote to me.
So either something is broken here or your bullshiting for a reason I don’t understand.
This IPO is going to be one of the biggest rug pulls in history.
Yes. If you follow the money, investors in OpenAI are the usual suspects, a Kushner in there (admittedly the “best” kushner) and the early investors were guaranteed returns of up to 18% (bank CD currently around 5.3%) which stemmed from a $500B injection from the US government. Not only will it be a rug pull, but a government built one. Truly appaling, we let the fox in the henhouse.
Cant have Healthcare for our people, but can pump and dump the world economy.
So far
Please don’t make the tax payer pay for it. The tax payer is gonna pay for it, right?
The rich know the poor will cushion their fall
Sucks to be US American.
Indeed. But we are also known for dragging the rest of the world down with us. So brace yourselves.
I mean, we cut basically all of our external aid style programs so it sucks for non Americans too.
Personally, I would MICH rather my tax dollar go to teaching African kids about LGBTQ+ topics than being given to some stupid AI company.
Removed by mod
“we lose money on every sale but we make it up in volume!”
Yup, because they’re still losing hundreds of dollars for every dollar spent. Their economics still rely on a delusion that the hardware outlay is a fixed cost that can be recovered after model training by selling cheaper compute. Instead, models continue to be released not only to match competition, but because models still do not do a fraction of what they are promised and being sold to do. So capital costs are not fixed.
So AI hyperscalers have a lose/lose/lose/lose choice of either growing at a rate that requires unsustainable subsidies, stopping growth and admitting models can’t do what they and a thousand other startups have been selling them for, charging actual costs, or any combination of the three.
If people were charged anything near the actual costs, much less with a profit margin, demand would implode fast enough to create a sonic boom.
Add to this that incremental improvement comes at exponentially more and more cost. So they spend ungodly amounts more in hopes that the next incremental improvement will push them over the magic line beyond where the are.
Some impressive feats but the issues holding it back from the ‘replace the whole economy’ sort of ambition they imagine are very stubborn. Notably it still confidently declares incorrect information (a significant volume of software developement works around by rigging auto-retries until it stumbles into ‘correctness’, and of course the people pumping out slop art/books aren’t bound by ‘correctness’) and they still have no clear path to autonomous control of humanoid robotics (as crazy advanced as the online GenAI experience, they are still struggling to demonstrate even the most basic manual labor tasks).
Sound investment. Sounds like the echo down a dark tunnel.
C’mon. Implode already.
The ai crash of 2026 can’t come soon and fast enough
The RAM cartel is figuring out a new excuse for a price hike before allowing it.
Can’t wait to end up holding the bag for this because they’re “too big to fail” again.
So much of their revenue is government contracts. Especially with the Pentagon.
Really can’t be overstated how they’ve wormed themselves into the Military Industrial Complex.
A lot of their revenue is also investment from hardware and software vendors that are using the revenue from the AI companies for those investments.
It’s like the Enron scheme, but instead of one company inventing fake companies to move money around to increase revenue and drive up prices to hide the fact they’re hemorrhaging money while the C-suite tries to divest their own money from the company, it’s multiple companies working together to move money around to increase revenue and drive up prices to hide the fact they’re hemorrhaging money while the major investors try to find a way to cash out.
Anthropic is anxious to do their IPO because they know their business model is fucked, and their shareholders want out.
they’re hemorrhaging money
Are they? This is productive capital being rented out at a profit to the end users. And the end users are, as often as not, big public institutions with near bottomless accounts.
I might argue they are rapidly exhausting scare natural resources. And you’re welcome to do the material analysis on whether dumping 50 gal of water and 100 Mbtus of energy through a digital engine to make a “Farting Peach Says It’s Voting For The Green Party in 2026!” viral Facebook ad is benefiting humanity.
But merely observing that money is changing hands between big economic players doesn’t let us know if something is profitable. You’re describing the basic functions of a financial economy.
Anthropic is anxious to do their IPO because they know their business model is fucked
That’s the popular line. People said the same thing about Tesla when it went public.
It’s always us normies that end up footing the bill and feeling the pain (sometimes literally to the point of dying).
Every fucking time.
$8B real loss on $16B revenue. ($72B is a bondholder gain (accounting loss) from conversion). $9B in training costs not counted as loss, even though it is worthless whenever next model version is released.
$561B in forced spending on compute over next 10 years, with $750B total compute costs lined up. Structural losses are baked in for a few years.
But, when the word guessing program gains consciousness, it will be capable of doing the job of every worker in the world, and eager to do those jobs, and anybody who owns Anthropic shares will be a trillionaire in an economy that totally works and is healthy. So, better invest now!
Musk giving 1 share (about $160) to all US children with a Trump account, will make the next generation cheer for skynet genocide and oppression. “For a while, it added 10-20% to my net worth.”
even though it is worthless whenever next model version is released.
For most version releases I actually doubt that, I’m pretty sure they just keep training the model and release checkpoints every few months. Architectural changes, however, will indeed invalidate the previously trained models, and occasionally they have to do that to keep up with the competition.
But if you do architectural changes even just once a year, that means you’d have to depreciate those training costs over just that one year to be truthful. Meaning they might as well be losses rather than depreciating capital investments.
There is a genuine “training corpus” that is an accumulated asset and grows and feeds new models. The vast majority of training cost, that should be expensed, is the training time compute. Neither of these are expensed. There was about 13 major US model releases in September. At least 7 of these replaced a 1 month old previous model family. Open AI gpt sol went from 5.6 to 6 to 6.1 in about 2 months.
Fast model releases not only lock in structural losses, they juice revenue growth illusions. Model use rate generally drops by 66% 4 weeks after release, because of competition, and a surge of use on release for evaluation.
New models are trained on older models, so even if the older model is not longer at par, without it the new model couldn’t exists
I’m totally spamming this across the thread with copy/vaste.
