Ex-Tesla employee reveals shocking details on worker conditions: ‘You get fired on the spot.’::Tesla CEO Elon Musk’s ‘ultra hardcore’ work culture is revealed to have led to long hours, unsafe conditions, and harassment for employees.
As a western European, to me the problem isn’t that they’re fired on the spot, but that a company can actually do that. You guys should’ve fought for your rights.
USA. The no vacation nation.
No way. That would be un American. /s
Population density, it’s easy to protest when the capital is just 30 minutes away by bike like it is in a lot of Western European countries.
Conversely, I’m an American, it will take days for me to reach the nearest major city by car… it will take me around 2.5 hours to reach the newest minor City.
I live in North Carolina by the way.
You could drive through three countries in Western europe, by the time I could get to my nation’s capital. My nation’s capital is in virginia, that is the state north of me.
Much of our population lives in California, Texas, and New York, all much much further away from Washington DC then where I live.
Combine that with the fact that a lot of us can’t take any days off of work without falling way behind on our bills, and even if the capital was somewhere where we could all get to it to hold picket signs… there is simply too much to lose, the workers of the world can’t Unite when there is more on the table than our chains. I hate it here
I get your point that the US is big, but it shouldn’t take days to get to a major city from anywhere in NC. It’s what, a 9 hour drive to Washington from the furthest end of NC?
Maybe 10 hours if you’re in Murphy and there’s a rock slide. If you’re on Ocracoke island after 9 PM you might have to wait for morning for the next ferry.
Also, it’s REAL hard to be 6 hours away from Charlotte while you’re in either of the Carolinas, as long as you can travel at the Interstate speed limits. You should be able to drive from Bath to Boone in about 10 hours.
Ok I’m not even from the states, but you should be able to get to Washington DC in less than a day from North Carolina. Hell, anywhere on the east coast is within 5 hours from a huge metropolitan centre
Fellow Tarheel here, and bud if it takes you “days” to drive to the nearest major city, you should have your car looked at. I drove from San Diego to Raleigh in 60 hours once.
naw she just learned to drive in vermont
Notice how that’s almost three days
This example was provided as an estimated upper limit - you could drive to basically the furthest-away big city within 60 hours. Other cities would be substantially less than that, because that’s an upper limit.
Driving from a small town on the western tip of NC… let’s say Franklin, NC, to Washington DC takes only 8 hours… but driving to Knoxville, TN or Atlanta, GA would only take you 2 hours.
If that drive takes you “days” by car, you might have an issue.
Do you walk to those cities or what?
Do you think that in Europe we all live right next to the capital or even next to one of the top 4 biggest cities of our country?
I literally already said that the times listed were driving. America as a country is too big for protest to be a feasible solution.
Why don’t you protest on the steps of the company you work at?
they can’t, really. they probably see a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits, and try to settle them out of court.
Wrongful termination suits are hard to win. If they can point at you failing to do your job in any way your case is shot.
The trade off between job security and arbitrary firings and people who are unproductive but can’t be fired.
The first is a problem for the worker, the second is mainly a problem for the employer.
While I bet that the employers claim that it’s impossible to do and will lead to the downfall of the economy it has worked just fine in Europe.
And yet productivity is very similar between the US and Europe…
I do think it’s good to create a healthy culture that respects workers, but I don’t understand why being able to fire an employee is a bad thing
Imagine you’re not allowed to fire people you don’t like who you think are doing a bad job at work
It’s obviously not forbidden to fire people. You just can’t do it like that, because you woke up grumpy that particular morning. Employees are highly protected in France, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be fired.
You just can’t do it like that, because you woke up grumpy that particular morning
That should be fine though, that’s freedom of association, why force people to work together who don’t want to do so?
I personally don’t find it fine. You’re talking as if everyone is equal meanwhile, most of the time, there is a subordination. People usually don’t say “I want to work with that guy because I think he’s nice”. Sometimes it’s “I need to work anywhere because I need to feed my children and simply survive”. Those people can’t live in fear of losing their job everytime their boss has a twisted testicle, they can’t afford being jobless. Their lives depend on it.
But it’s something quite cultural, that’s how we decided to build our society.
It has flaws though : corporations can become quite cautious when hiring someone, making sure they fit well and won’t cause any trouble.
Exactly this.
It’s an adjustment of power and privilege, we protect the ones with less power from the ones with the money. And since it goes both ways, in Sweden you usually have at least 3 months termination period. This allows the companies to find a replacement and not being left stranded when an important employee leaves.
The US, for a country being proud of not having any kings they are sure hell bent on creating new ones in every company.
Because people require a job in order to survive in this capitalist hell scape.
If you want to fire them sure, but you will still need to pay them 2-3 months of wages so they can comfortably search for a new job.
Same with employees, if they want to quit they will need to stay 2-3 months so the employer has time to look for a replacement.
Yeah it’s not all or nothing though. You’re acting like outside the US it’s impossible to fire people. That’s simply not even remotely true.
Indeed. That still happens. Just you have to have a valid reason to fire them. Not liking someone is a petty reason to fire someone. Not doing their job is another thing altogether.
the “valid reason” is you don’t like them, why would we want to force people to work together who don’t like each other?
You did well on the first one. Now you are just obviously trolling.
It’s sincere, I don’t think people are thinking through what they’re asking for
You just need to lose that American anti-worker mindset.
OK I’ll bite. Noone is being forced to work together. If you don’t like a colleague you can find a new job. But you can’t get someone fired just because you don’t like them, that is petty, selfish and childish. You seem to be taking extreme examples. Try looking at how the world outside America actually handles employment law before making wild assumptions that protecting employees from mini dictators means that people are forced to work together.
That isn’t a valid reason to stop paying someone though.
Since they need that pay in order to survive.
So every developed nation requires employers to pay their fired workers a couple of months of pay in advance.
> I don’t want to work at this company anymore so I quit, I just don’t feel like working here anymore
Seems ok for the employee to quit “at will” so why not for the employer?
Bc companies aren’t people. Corporations and humans are in no way two equal entities. There is no reason to think the laws should be set in any way other than ensuring people have their needs met.
Tesla preys on young and naive employees looking to get their foot in the door.
For instance back on Reddit in many of the engineering subs, there were countless new threads started by fresh engineering graduates who were hell bent on getting a job at Tesla. Many of us would warn them to stay as far away as possible from them (as well as SpaceX) but they wouldn’t listen no matter what we told them.
Most of these people weren’t dumb. Naive, sure, but not dumb. Some of them had a plan where they would bust their asses working at Tesla for a year or two and then that would be a great addition to their resume. Would it work for them? Not sure, but I do know that HR departments do think highly of seeing Tesla or SpaceX on one’s resume, so maybe that plan wasn’t quite so bad. I sure as fuck have no interest in working there, but then again, I like having some time-off.
yea that’s the sort of thing i would have done
Sounds like Tesla factory workers should form a union.
Wonder how much harder is it to form one in Texas compared to California
I’m not sure I’d consider it “shocking” more like “on par”
Right?! It’s like the guy literally modeled himself after Trump from The Apprentice.
He’s so dumb he probably thinks Trump is a good businessman.
I don’t understand why anyone idolizes this bastard. There are too many bootlickers out there, which is why nothing ever changes and assholes like him can continue to exploit people.
Tesla is also known for its shit build quality. So why not buy an EV from practically anyone else?
Cult of personality is an infectious disease.
And a really good song
The same issues persist to this day, but if you said something bad about Tesla 3 or 4 years ago, you’d get all these left-wing environmentalists screaming down your neck because they sooooooo wanted EVs to succeed that they completely fell for that clown Elon’s bullshit. Lo and behold that he was totally just playing liberals like a fiddle and he actually is a right wing psychopath.
Is this actually shocking or does this make perfect sense to anyone who has paid even a shred of attention to Musk’s manbaby tantrums?
should we start patitioning that elon musk not be involved with any companies. everything ive heard about him makes me think he has no respect for us peasants.
He’s a billionaire, probably thinks he pays us peasants too much for what we deliver, and would absolutely replace us for slaves if he could
He’s south African and has roots in emerald mining… he’d use slaves in a heartbeat and not lose sleep at all.
Nah he’d 100% replace humans with robots if he could. Way more efficient. No need for water, food, toilets, breaks, hell even lights technically speaking. Huge huge list of pros for him. (Don’t hate me I’m all for complete world automation)
If you are suprised about Elon, then it’s your fault. He has always been like this.
Nothing shocking if you kept up with the Xitter debacle.
Elmo has been firing anyone with even the slightest hint of critique.
Bastion of freedom of speech so long as you are a yes person!
Freedoms are limited on private property.
Textbook narcissist play. Expect everyone around you stand at attention to make your dreams happen. Maybe if you offered tangible rewards like bonuses and pay increases instead of vague promises of “exceptional reward” then people would work harder for you. Also, studies prove time and again that working excessive hours leads to diminishing returns. Also, throwing a fucking baby tantrum when a burned-out employee makes a mistake is a great way to lose talent.
I am in the odd area of “I’m poor, my family is rich”
My grandma asked me if she should buy Tesla stock. Glad I told her Hell No.
Send her the quote where even he says it’s overpriced.
Honestly, has musk ever done anything useful other than just being the money he was born into?
I despise the man, but there’s an argument to be made that Tesla accelerated the adoption of electric cars by at least five years, compared to what it otherwise would’ve been. I know he didn’t found Tesla, but I do feel like he played a pivotal role in changing people’s minds about electric cars.
Their engineers and designers did the work. He was the money. At most he stirred up some attention.
Also, side note, why do these points always mention the engineers and designers doing the actual work, and almost never the assembly workers for example?
Because electric cars were a relatively new concept that needed to be designed and prototyped. That’s a job done by engineers. Factory workers don’t really come in until mass production, after the engineering is done.
Okay, but my point was about changing people’s minds about it being cool and a product you’d want to own. Tesla’s strategy was to make a sports car (the first Roadster) to show that electric cars could compete with combustion engine cars and to make people want one.
The engineers who solved the challenges needed to achieve that didn’t come up with that vision - that came from the top. Of course, that was because those guys had the money and could therefore dictate the direction, but if they wouldn’t have made that choice electric cars would most likely be mass adopted quite a few years later. That’s what I’m talking about, and that’s why “engineers did the engineering work” isn’t an argument against my point.
Also, let’s be real; even now people talk about the engineers and designers being the driving force behind Tesla.
Usually I’d side with you but in this case, where the target was to introduce electric cars they weren’t the ones making the difference. On the assembly floor it’s just a job, they’d probably just have worked for Ford or Chevy building ICE cars as well.
VW had a hard time finding employees that wanted to take part in their qualification programs for assembly of their ID line in the beginning, very conservative community.
I met a test driver for Mercedes at a fast charger in 2021, he had an EQS test mule with him. Thought I’d ask some questions, got a tirade about all this electric shit won’t work and how he prefers the proper S-Class test jobs. Very conservative bunch, indeed.
The challenge was to make people talk about it and to make them want one, and that required a vision more so than just solving the engineering challenges. Their choice to first make a sports car - the Roadster - didn’t come from the engineers.
The engineers and designers were not the people who changed the perception of electric cars - which was needed to got us to where we are now. Both the actual founders and Musk were instrumental in pushing this.
At most he stirred up some attention
Which was definitely needed, and which he does deserve credit for. He’s still a piece of shit regardless, but that doesn’t mean we should overlook and/or dismiss the part he actually did play.
Like yeah, you’re right about engineers and designers doing the actual engineering and designing work, but it’s a generic (though correct) dunk on Musk that has little to do with the point I’m making.
Did he really?
Rather is it instead some billionaire would have done it. We had the bad luck of it being Elon Musk instead of someone better.
He put money in Tesla. That is his main contribution. Tesla which kinda had the first mover advantage of being the one well placed EV company via their deals with AC propulsion and Lotus. Both which happened without Elon.
What really made Tesla possible aka the first Tesla roadster possible was Tappering and Eberhard personally flying cross the Atlantic to go personally meet Lotus leadership for Lotus to produce the gliders aka most of the car. The chassis, body, the suspension. The roadster was mostly a Lotus made car in which Tesla dropped electric drive train. Electric drive train, which core technologies were licenses from AC propulsion.
Funnily worlds first big EV company might have been called AC propulsion. They had their Tzero prototype, which is pretty much hand build kit car Tesla Roadster. All of first Eberhard, Tappering and then Musk talked to AC propulsion about them starting serial production of tzero. However it didn’t happen since the company leadership adamantly refused. That is why Eberhard and Tappering incorporated Tesla Inc. They needed separate company to start production of tzero style roadster, since AC Propulsion strictly stuck to the field of just electric drivetrain tech. Under which field they then did what they thought their business is, AC propulsion licenses the drivetrain tech to Tesla and then let Tesla take the job and risk of actual automotive production.
Main contribution of Elon was insisting on carbon fiber instead of glass fiber composites. Requiring expensive retooling at Lotus for the Tesla production line thus making making car more expensive and saving negligible amounts of weight.
All the engineers apparently went: We already considered carbon fiber anyway. Carbon Not worth the extra cost of parts for the weight saving. This body can be perfectly well be done with glass fiber composites. Like you are the main stock holder, so it’s your money. We do it in carbon fiber, if you insist. Just saying there is no reason to do it engineering wise.
However Elon wanted cool space age carbon fiber body so they did it in carbon fiber. Again at great extra cost for both Tesla and the customers.
Sound familiar? Elon insisting on non practical engineering choice, since he got in its head a obsession to make the thing that way and no otherway. Like removing radars and other sensors even though as leaks have later revealed all the main engineers on the driving systemics said it is stupid idea and leads to unreliable sensorial leading to problems.
Atleast in the camera only case he is trying to save money. I guess that is improvement over the unnecessary exorbitantly expensive carbon body paneling on the Roadster (Roadster is aluminium tub chassis car , the carbon fiber was doing no mechanical work, it was literally just body cladding).
It’s not that shocking; I read a positive profile on Musk almost 10 years ago where he nevertheless fired an employee on the spot for not immediately knowing the answer to some random question Musk had for him.
How is this legal? Does the US have zero employee protection regulation?
If this happened in NZ, the business owner would be put through the ringer and it would be front page news (it’s been front page plenty here) for unfair dismissal.
The laws are there, sure. But if you become a corporate “whistle blower” you’re not likely to get a job again. And the company will just drown the accusations in fines and litigation and nothing changes because we’re poor and solo, because we’re not unionized because if we try we get fired (again, illegally).
Sigh.
Well, that begs the next question. Do you not have laws to protect whistleblowers and allow anonymous whistleblowing?
Yup. But they don’t work. Same problems. They’ll get dog piled by litigation, threats, and investigations. meanwhile said whistle blower is unemployed and getting raked through the mud. Not much protection going on.
Which is why being able to whistle blow anonymously is so important
They have employment rules, but I believe as they employee your main recourse would be to sue them. They don’t have a government entity like Employment New Zealand to hold the employer to account on the employee’s behalf.
Typical Amurica
Shocking to who?
