An investigation by Gamers Nexus found LG smart TVs sweep local networks to map phones and nearby devices. Tests also showed the sets can capture microphone audio with the screen off — they then upload data once reconnected to the internet.
Stuff like this is why I’m still holding on to my old TV for dear life. It’s seen better days but it’s at least easily repairable.
The amp went bad which causes the internal speakers to give up after a couple of minutes, so I just run it with a soundbar. Then one of the cats broke the optical port for it, so now it’s taped on lol. The panel still works great, so I think I’ll just replace the main board on it to keep it going for a few more years.
Once something on it finally goes where repairing it becomes unviable, then I’ve no idea where to go from there. I guess I’ll just keep buying used TVs and fix them up.
As people say in these threads everytime, just don’t give your tv Internet access.
Seems smart to avoid LG as well.
It’s still listening and recording. The recent Gamers Nexus video shows that the just store everything locally until they find a way to send it. They’re always scanning the radio for other access points too.
My Visio TV developed a thing where the OSD menus freeze up and the controls unresponsive frequently - it’s not connected to WiFi. Its my opinion that some internal drive is filled up with my watch data that a factory reset cannot fix, and I suspect the lack of disk space is why it’s freezing. I can’t* prove this, but I suspect it to be.
*I might possibly have the skills to, but my time is devoted to other tasks, and I don’t want to deprive my household of the living room TV just because I want to tear it apart.
go one step further and open it up and unplug the wifi antennas, just to curtail it even further.
Yeah, it’s a fair point. It’s also because newer TVs are generally less repairable as well, but I didn’t get the message across very well.
I do tv repair. They are dead east to repair. Its basically a large laptop. You have a system board, power board, and depending the brand a few other smaller boards that are easy to swap. Getting the parts is not incredibly difficult, but it depend how new, how old, Eric. EBay is key. But, like any tv, of its the screen, it’s trash. Typically costs more to replace that then buy new.
You know you can use a new to without connecting it to the internet.
Both of my lg TVs are rooted. Anyway to just disable this through that? Dont see anything in the homebrew channel
and guess who will (potentially) have legal action taken against them? i’ll give you a hint: it won’t be LG!
My “big” TV is a 55", 14-year-old Toshiba dumb display. It still works as well as it ever has, but it’s not OLED and it’s not 100", so sometimes I think maybe…
But, then I read articles like this, and decide against it.
This is why I always block devices that have no business being on the internet at MAC level.
You’ll also have to make sure to properly destroy it afterwards. If you re-sell it, the next owner might connect it to the internet and all the stored data will get uploaded.
Also there’s tech like Amazon Sidewalk that allows devices to talk to other devices nearby in a mesh, bypassing your router entirely.
There’s a lot of misinformation in the comments here.
- LG have been caught using the Internet connection of connected devices (like windows computers) to snoop on your network.
- Because of that, it has access to your network even if you remove the wifi module or do not connect the TV directly to your network.
- Lobotomizing the TV will not necessarily fix this issue, but I still think it’s a good start. It may be beneficial to switch to a different operating system or just ban the TV from accessing certain parts of the Eco system on your computer.
- Removing Bluetooth, wifi, and microphone modules will be beneficial in the long run because this will not be the last time a company tries this and it’s not limited to LG. If you are technically inclined or can follow a YouTube video, go for it.
This all happens the moment you plug that HDMI (or DisplayPort for people who purchased an LG computer monitor) right into an internet-enabled laptop through a protocol called EDID, also known as “Extended Display Identification Data,” which by itself is totally harmless!
It simply tells your operating system what kind of monitor is connected, what its capabilities are, it’s serial number. That’s it!
Inside Windows, when you go to Device Manager, it might not seem like much. Just a generic PnP device attached as a monitor.
Dive a little more into Device Manager, and we see where EDID does its magic; we found that this particular Microsoft Box is hooked up to some kind of Samsung monitor. Now, Samsung might have some kind of driver that would help take advantage of my monitor. But this Samsung is so old they simply do not care.
Yeah, it’s installing drivers on WINDOWS.
So, caveat two is don’t connect these things to an internet-connected WINDOWS machine.
Good point.
But, as others have said, if you do successfully air gap one of these things, it might stop working because a hard drive is full, or more directly because it can’t phone home and is designed to lock you out in that case.
LG have been caught using the Internet connection of connected devices (like windows computers) to snoop on your network.
Do you have any sources for that? Not doubting it just curious about how that works.
These do not support your claims.
See the third link and watch the video.
I think you’re misunderstanding what’s happening. The LG TV isn’t directly using the Windows internet connection. It’s taking advantage of Windows Update to have Windows itself install malware as a driver update for the screen.
Which I think is actually worse, because it shows that Microsoft is complicit in this nonsense.
Waiting for the “No idea how this happened, we’re sorry and promise to make this better in future versions” moment - instead of admitting that this is just their business model.
Hoping for prosecution from the EU and at least one other country.
from the EU and at least one other country.
EU is not a country.
Current Commission is pushing for chatcontrol so they’d probably applaud LG’s practices.
LOL
I knew someone would point that out.
“other” in this case is shorthand for “not in EU”.
The EU is not a country, yet it does stuff that otherwise countries do, like legislating and judicating privacy laws. The correct term would have been “other political entity” but what is the point of that word picking again?
Like any political entity the EU can do many things at once, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Different institutions also have different interests. The Commission isn’t the primary driver behind chat control, a number of member states are. At the same time EU courts tend to be staunchly opposed to mass surveillance and in the European Parliament it depends on the party.
My LG TV runs WebOS, which is a linux distro. I have been wondering how hard it is to root and replace with a distro of my own choosing. I had thought because my TV is pretty old that I was safe from the more sophisticated spying, but last week it interrupted what I was watching and would not let me continue using it without agreeing to new terms of use. This revived my interest in rooting it.
https://cani.rootmy.tv/ - I just recently bought an LG for the first time, with eyes wide open, and used this site to get root on it, as well as VLANing it with a strict block list, but also an allow list only based policy, and strict no external DNS requests policies.
Also worth knowing that when accepting their policies many of them are optional and are just data slurping consent , think it was the top 2 compulsory in my region out of about 5.
I saw this linked the other day. I haven’t looked into it deeply or done it.
I rooted my C1 years ago. I spent weeks afterwards worried that I just destroyed the warranty of a $1,500 TV.
But today, I’ve never felt so justified.
I didn’t know LG webOS rooting was a thing, that’s interesting to know.
There is an open source version of webOS, although I don’t know how it compares to the stock LG version. Maybe there will eventually be something like a LineageOS equivalent.
Go look up “tivoization”. GPLv2 isn’t enough to protect you from this shit.
And that’s why I have a VLAN without outbound connections allowed. Still allows me to cast to the device from a separate vlan but the TV has no internet at all.
Seriously, this is the way. I did this too in about 15 mins. Also setup a simple rule to allow the vlan to reach my homeserver in a separate vlan specifically on Plex and Jellyfin ports. That’s it. They cant phone home. You still enjoy your own media.
Yeah if you setup the firewall correctly you can access the TV but the TV can’t access anything it self.
Same here, smart devices go on a very restricted VLAN. Most only get access to Home Assistant for control.
Even without deliberate spying from these devices letting these things loose on the network at large has always seemed a bad idea to me.
Did this a few month back. Then my Sony TV decided to hide all apps when it has no internet for a few weeks. I guess when the internal disk is filling up and it needs to phone home again. What a shit show!
So I had to connect again, but now https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spocky.projengmenu is running, to hopefully never be coerced to go online again.
Jellyfin ftw.
So this is why every product started to go standby, low power mode, instead of turning off.
They’ve been doing that since infrared remotes let you turn the TV on.
Also because people whine when things take too long to turn on but yes this too
Secretly recording conversations in peoples homes sounds like it should be against the law in a number of countries.
Imagine someone working for the government, security services, or a defence contractor. I suspect LG may be in trouble with a number of National Security agencies.
It is illegal. Unfortunately crime is legal for corporations. They just pay the crime fee and can continue undisturbed. Shareholders must be held responsible individually, otherwise it will only get worse.
Not shareholders. Decision makers. Upper msnagement. Shareholders shpuld pay in share value (the finantial penalty to the corporations should be high enough to affect that), bu the personal an criminal responsibility belongs to managers, CEO in particular.
Shareholders must be held responsible individually
So, are you personally on the hook here because the company managing your pension fund is holding stocks in LG? Because that technically makes you a shareholder as it was bought with your money, right?
Edit: not sure why I get downvoted, this is a legitimate concern/nuance to the debate. The managing company doesn’t own these stocks so they’re not the shareholders, that’s the people whose money they are managing, but these people are not directly in control of the funds. Who is the liable party in this?
The highest level employee/officer who had knowledge of it should be held responsible
That might stop this madness.
See the thing is if your pension also funds a murder company does outsourcing who manages it not make you at least a little culpable? I think it does and i think the only way to stop this madness is for a little justice to come your way.
That just sounds like a good way to destroy index funds.
does outsourcing who manages it not make you at least a little culpable
What if i have no control over who manages it? I have two, one is government managed and mandatory, the other is part of my salary (and mandatory) and who manages my company paid pension is decided by my employer. I have no control of either aside from general risk profile and high level market groups on my company paid pension (e.g. “tech” or “renewable energy”, but no ).
It doesn’t matter how many layers of evasion there are. Responsibility has to be with individuals in order for there to be change.
The fact that a pension fund can hold shareholds is crazy by itself, also, is the pension found a company or managed by your state? It shouldn’t really be a thing in first place
is the pension fund a company or managed by your state?
Both in my case, as there are both the government pension fund that is mandatory and the one used by my employer which uses one of the large primary pension institutions in my country.
Is it a bit weird that I don’t just manage all my pensions myself? Yes, a bit. But it’s how its done in my country and it has some tax benefits compared to getting the money in hand and investing myself.
Is it a bit weird that I don’t just manage all my pensions myself?
Naah, at least, i don’t know anyone that does it in my country
Me either. My union pension is controlled by the union and managed by a bank as far as I can tell.
Or hired by those same agents of authority.
Recording without consent is very much a crime in any single-party state, but my guess is that the TOS that people click past to use the TV gives them permission to record you. If it didn’t, they would be in big legal hot water.
Clicking through ToS does not magically make illegal things legal.
Consenting to recording makes recording legal.
Making that consent required to use the TV or its features and it being buried within lengthy, opaque terms of service in a country with a low level of literacy should be illegal, but it stands in the US because it’s a consumer hostile country.
A TOS presented after an electronic device has been sold is not valid in most of the World since it’s considered an attempt to, after the sale, force a change of the terms of the implicit contract which is the sale.
A company can shove whatever they want in front of the customer as contract conditions they have to accept for a sale before the sale - by which point the potential customer can refuse and not buy or accept and buy - not after.
Of course, they don’t do that because they would lose most sales, so instead there’s a TOS or EULA which the owners of the devices are forced to agree to after the sale to fully enjoy that which they bought, but these are really just legal fictions in most countries.
Mind you, this does not apply to a subscription to an ongoing service, though even then at least in Europe, there are conditions they much obbey to have the customer accept a TOS or a TOS change after subscribing, such as it being possible for the customer to cancel the service at no cost rather than accept the new TOS.
Unconscionable bunk. It’s illegal anyway, just like how you can’t sign a contract to sell yourself into slavery.
If the courts won’t enforce it, vigilantes should.
Should be. Hope it happens and quickly
Only in trouble if they didn’t loop them in on the audio feeds.
Great, I wonder what my fridge is up to. It’s LG and has wifi for some reason. I never connected it to my network, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they take advantage of open networks anyway
I tested this when my LG fridge was new, and got a warning when I left the door open. Quite helpful. But still disabled.
It needs wifi for the open-door alarm? My dumb GE fridge can do that without smart features.
The regular beeping speaker/piezo solves the same problem without WiFi or other shenanigans.
EU really should regulate against this kind of behaviour
If anyone does, EU will be the first.
EU lobbies won’t ever allow it.
In the later years the EU regulations have been massively disappointing. Only favouring big EU companies and destroying little businesses and the european consumers.
Some disappointing eu regulations:
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The cookiesgate. Your data is still going around everywhere. You just have a pop up everywhere that means nothing.
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¿Replaceable batteries on smartphones? No, only for cheap chinese phones if so. The big players can pay for some european certification on the quality of their batteries and doesn’t need to be replaceable.
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¿Stop killing games? Hahahaha don’t ever think about it.
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You are buying too much, we need you poorer. So we put up a 3€ tariffs per
categoryproduct on chinese stores so you are forced to buy the exact same product to an european retailer at twice the price. -
We heard you like the environment, what about a new complicated tax on packaging so all small business cannot function and only big business are allowed to send products within the european union.
I think the days of the EU legislation saving the day are far off.
And yet, they’ve been the best government on the planet for the working class.
on chinese stores
Wrong. It’s on items purchased from any non-EU countries. So it also includes the Irish purchasing from UK.
Liberalism will always be corrupted by capitalism at the end of the the day. Maybe some systems last a decade or two longer, but it’s all bound to fall.
What makes you define the EU as ideologically liberal?
Liberals ARE capitalists. By definition.
IMHO Liberalism was manufactured by Capitalism as a left-sounding form of politics to allow mainstream parties which were genuinelly leftwing to move Right in Economic, Quality Of Life and even broad Equality whislt still appearing to be left-wing due to their pro-liberty posture on Moral and Social subjects.
I say this because I have yet to see any form of Liberalism in mainstream politics, ever, anywhere, which sought to maximize people’s freedom to access limitied or constrained resources which are required merelly to live, such as Land (which Land Ownership goes against), so I don’t think that at least in Politics there was ever any genuine Liberalism for Capitalism to corrupt.
That charge is not just on Chinese stores. I manufacture my own product in the usa through a factory i own and get hit with those fucking charges.
Then I’ve got to pay for all this cardboard and plastic but OH LOOK there’s a minimum fee so I’m subsidizing larger businesses or Europeans in general. AND I need to pay for a European contact to do it! Fuck yourselves for that one.
Eu regulation is hostile to small business and they will be left with nothing but major shitty international corps at this rate.
I mean the whole point of this is to subsidize small business in the EU at the expense of businesses outside the EU. The fact it is more difficult and costly for you is exactly the point. They want to support businesses and workers in the EU, because that’s where their people actually are, that’s where their taxes are, that’s where they support infrastructure and social programs.
It is true that it favors larger international corporations, because they have near monopolies and csn manage all of this at a smaller relative cost. The solution of course is to make tariffs and other import duties scale with the size of the company.
So the EU regulations are not perfect, they do hurt international small businesses while protecting in part local small businesses. They need, like everyone, to deal with the problem of international monopoly companies and restore more and more of their manufacturing and product development into more and more local small businesses.
In the USA, you say?
“Oh no”.
Anyway…
-
Problem us that there are too few tech literate politicians
Problem is lobbying.
ding-ding-ding
AKA legal corruption
They could educate themselves or hire help, if they weren’t corrupt.
The problem is way worse: big tech
contributes tobribes politicians to vote according to industry interests.It’s not the politicians job to know everything but to make decisions and legislate based on information from the expertise. It is the people in the know that need to make the proposals for the politicians to bring it up. It’s us, the tech literate, that need to write proposals that are informative with arguments derived from trusted sources to make the politicians aware that these are concerns that need to be addressed.
The fucked up part is that “expertise” is assumed to be exclusively found in the industry being regulated. Bill Gates is a respected industry expert, but RMS is just some dumbfuck nobody because he’s not “in the industry”.
It is the people in the know that need to make the proposals
No, it’s the politician’s job to get in touch with experts of any given field.
They prefer lobbyists instead because they are corrupt.After proposals come in, yes. If the only proposals coming in are from lobbyists of various corporations and interest groups, guess which matters are going to be on the table?
Sadly, I don’t have time or money to do that. You know who does? Big tech does!
Let’s all lie belly up and do nothing and accept that nothing will ever change for the better because nobody else is doing it for us and it is impossible for us to change the world all alone. This is exactly the defeatist mindset that the economic elites want people to have.
You could do something small, like find out your representatives and write a personal mail to them, informing them from your point of view. With enough people doing small things and some doing big things the chances for things like this gaining traction are magnitudes bigger than giving up in advance. It takes a few hours to a few days depending on your dedication and whatever cost coffee is in your area of residence.
It’s so refreshing finding someone with that kind of opinion. I feel less lonely.
I can’t tell if this comment thread is filled with doomer basement dweller defeatists that use their worldview as excuse to not even try or foreign bot farms pushing said agenda.
It can be both.
You have the time. Get off the internet.
Can’t you see I’m working right now?!
Glad I unplugged the ethernet cable from my LG TV
I’m shocked, i tell you, shocked!
